Both Christians and Atheists Are Fools

Everyone has heard Christians quote Psalm 14:1 to atheists.
“The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.””
According the biblegateway.com the Hebrew words rendered fool in Psalms denotes one who is morally deficient. I wonder if the average Christian who uses this verse to insult atheists knows what they are really saying. I would guess not. They most likely think the word “fool” means a stupid or idiotic person so we will go with that.
Everyone has also heard Atheists say that Christians can’t be all that bright if they are stupid enough to believe in fairy-tales, not understanding how evolution works, and not recognizing confirmation bias in the realm of prayer. The mind that uses reason instead of faith has a difficult time understanding how these things could be missed by a thinking and intelligent person.
Why am I pointing out that fact that both Christians and Atheists think the other group to be fools? Simply because both groups are fools. Not for the reasons given but because both assume the other are fools for not seeing the world as they do. I see no evidence for a god or gods anywhere in the known universe. I could be wrong about that. I don’t think I am but who knows? If I am wrong, then I’m not a fool. I’m just wrong. The same is truth the other way. Many people see what they perceive as evidence for a god or gods everywhere they look. They could very well be mistaken. Does that make them foolish? No, it just makes them mistaken.
Whenever we get to a point where we start to assume members of other groups are fools because they disagree with us, even on seemingly huge topics, we are the ones being foolish. One can be smart, well read, compassionate, and wrong about any given thing simultaneously. It’s not difficult.

Theists and False Flagging/Reporting

I am sure this topic has been covered before but I thought I would add my two cents in the form of a question. Are you ready theists? Here goes.

If you have the “TRUTH” on your side, why do you need to be dishonest in your dealings with atheists on the web?

Respecting God or Egocentric Thinking?

“Respect God

“Do His will as if it were your own, so that He will do His will as it were yours. Nullify your own will before His so that he will nullify the will of others before you.”"

I read this gem of a quote on a Christian page the other day at which point two things stood out in my mind.
The first is that who ever wrote this thought they could manipulate the will of, what they believe to be, an all powerful being.
The second is that they also seem to believe that their god will suspend the free will of others for their benefit.
I see this quote as a proclamation of egocentric thinking that, far to often, goes hand in hand with god delusions.
Oh right, the title. “Respect God” was written above the quote as shown. I don’t know why or how the quote and the title fit together but I’m sure to the theist mind it makes all the sense in the world.

No Such Thing As An Atheist?

I have heard it said that there is no such thing as an atheist. I have heard it said that we really do believe in the Christian god but are lying to ourselves about it. Why? Because we just can’t handle the reality that God is real and/or because we want to live “in sin” without fear of judgment.
I don’t think you are crazy or stupid for believing in gods. Humans have pretty much always done so. It is a flaw in our genetic makeup. But if you think others believe what you believe even when they make it clear that they don’t, you are (at least a little) crazy or stupid. Well, maybe not but you are certainly delusional. If I say I don’t believe in your god, it is because I don’t believe in your god. To assume otherwise is sad.
Think of it this way: if I were to say that there are no theists, just atheists pretending there is a god because they can’t handle reality or because they want someone else to take the fall for their sin filled lifestyle, would I be correct? No. I could believe it all day long. I could shout it from the roof tops but in the end my belief on the matter would have no effect on the reality of it.
So, if you are one of those who believe I really do believe in your god, it might be time to reevaluate that belief.

If I Don’t Believe in God, Why Do I Talk About Him At All?

If I don’t believe in god, why do I talk about him at all?
Well, maybe because the idea was fed into my brain from infancy by well-meaning parents. Maybe one never really gets past the need to fight against the brainwashing that was done to him especially when he sees it being done to others. Maybe every time I hear someone say “God bless you” I am reminded of the fact that the majority of human kind is still trapped in the superstition and delusion that is religion and belief in gods.
Do I find pleasure in the seemingly pointless and endless debates? Does it made me happy to argue the same points without being heard in any real way by those trapped in god belief? Is it fun for me to get the same non-answers skeptics got a hundred years ago?
No. So why do I do it? How can I not? If you woke up one morning and saw something that was fundamentally wrong with the world, would you roll over and go back to sleep or would you stand and fight for change? Some people stand and fight for water for Africa. Some people stand and fight to end abortion. Others stand against drugs. I stand against what I perceive as the greatest enemy of human kind: the notion that gods are real and that old books should guide our every step.
I do not fight out of hate. I fight because I care. I am a part of humanity and I care where we go and what we do on the way there. If you can’t understand that, if you still cling to your preconceived notions about me, well, then I guess we will be enemies. But for my part, I do not fight you. I fight the trap you are in. Maybe someday we can be friends when the traps are torn down and destroyed? I suppose we will have to wait and see.

I’m Back.

I know I said that I would no longer write on this blog but I feel the need to do so again. It has been over a year and my life has changed but I am still fighting the good fight and all that. I do not have internet at home right now, as some God fearing crackhead took all my computer stuff down to the modem, so I will be posting once or twice a week and commenting in like frequency.
If any of my old friends are still out there. Hi.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

Well, my friends, this is the end. I am not posting on this blog again. I am not closing it for now, but it is time to move on. I truly appreciate everyone’s input and honest discussion. I have learned a lot here and have grown as a person and in my understanding of the world. Thank you all.

Zeb

P.S. Wingnut, Bradley, Jeston, Glen, Jimmy (and wife), Chris, and everyone else who has put a lot of time into this blog, I consider all of you my friends and will ,most likely, miss you all.

P.P.S. I will be continuing my writing in another fashion somewhere else and, no, I am not saying how or where. So, see you when I see you.

Religion and The Mullet of Truth

In the grand scheme of things, truths go in and out of fashion about as fast as hair styles. If you were to have you hair styled in a fashion from the 1950′s, people might stare. From the 1850‘s, people might laugh. Hair styles change and evolve over time to fit the environment of the minds of the time.

In the same way, the things we accept as truth change in our own lives and over the course of history. What was popular 10,000 years ago, or even 1,000 years ago, is not popular today. For example, most people know that dancing naked around an idol will not bring rain. Today’s truths will look funny in the future.

People think that their hair style makes them look better. People think that their truth makes the wold look better too. If this were not true, I don’t think anyone would care how their hair looked or what the truth was.

So, in some ways religions are like hair styles. But what style best describes the different religions of the world? Well, Buddhism is an easy one. Their monks shave their heads. They say the only truth is that there is no truth. Then there are Rastafarians, they think that smoking the reefer helps them get closer to god. Maybe you can think of a better hair style for them, but I am thinking dread-locks here. Let’s see… Next we have Jews. They grow long sideburns and long beards because the Torah says they have to. They have not changed their style… ever. Then there are the Christians. The problem here is that there are so many different kinds. Some are flat tops, some are shoulder length. Others have spikes. This reflects the fact that people interpret the bible in different ways. The last religion/hair style I want to mention is the small cult Mullet. They don’t stay in style very long and everybody who does not have one thinks they look silly.

The problem with truth is that people from any given religion see people who do not share their truth wearing a Mullet. They think, “Why would that person want to leave the house with hair like that?” or “What is wrong with them? Look at the state of their head.”

But in the same way all hair styles are artificial, so are all truths. Hair just grows, anything we do to it is a choice. The way we perceive the world is not that different.

Minimalist And The Start of a Serious Discussion

This is a conversation that I have moved from the “About Zeb” page.

Steve Wunderink (frankie’s husband)
Aug 27, 2010 @ 20:48:06

Zeb … if you are ready for a serious discussion I am more than willing … but first you need to define a few terms for me. No meaningful discussion can take place when we use words that mean different things to different people:

Define these definitions of yourself for me:
Minimalist?
Zen Budhist
Hippie
“think independently”
slavery

#

zebulonthered
Aug 28, 2010 @ 18:24:50

Hi Steve,
How is life in the big city?
I am more than happy to define these words for you.

Minimalist – To own as few material possessions as possible. I could even
go so far as to say that I don’t believe anyone “owns” anything.

Zen Buddhist – I am not exactly a Zen Buddhist, but I follow many of the
practices. I do not believe the supernatural parts of Buddhism. I have my
own ideas of how things work. Buddha said to try all of it, and set
aside what doesn’t work.

Hippie – I say I am a hippie because I think that the System is broken
and we need to do something about it. I also think about what I do and
what I buy, how it will effect me and those around me. I don’t use soap
or deodorant and I rarely use shampoo because they are bad for me and the
environment. I think that corporate America is an unnecessary evil. I
think that we need to rethink how we do things. I could go on…

“think independently” – Independent thought is looked down upon in this
culture. If someone has the nerve to think differently, they are shunned.
People have an “understanding” of how the world works and they hold to
it, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. When we
teach our children that there is only one way of doing things, we are
setting them up to be mindless zombies. We tend to get upset if they ask
too many questions, and so they learn to stop asking. That is bad.

slavery – Bondage, either mental or physical.

I could elaborate but I don’t like writing books.

What would you like to talk about?
I can make a post for the subject if you like.
Oh, can you write a little bit about yourself so I know where you are coming from? Thanks.

#

Steve
Aug 28, 2010 @ 20:09:58

WOW … where to start … I’ll ask a question in each of your definitions and see which rabbit hole we want to go down …

Minimalist: Why would it be wrong to “own” something or to “possess” something?

Zen Buddhist: You are not “exactly” a Buddhist so there is some wiggle room there but what are the “supernatural” parts of Zen Buddhism? What is your “idea” of how things work?

Hippie: So hippie is the opposite of corporate America? AND hippie is protecting the envrironment through watching what you do and buy? What are your thoughts on a better way than corporate America?

Think Independently: Why do you think independent thot is looked down on? Is “independant” thought the same thing as “different” thaought? What if there IS only one way to do things? (1+1=2, etc).

Slavery: Do you think you or anyone will/can EVER be free from some sort of bondage or do we just trade one bond for another?

there’s a start … let’s go from there

#

zebulonthered
Aug 28, 2010 @ 21:24:01

Steve ~ I think we could take them in order but I have to ask why you would care why or what I think. I have not heard from you in years and you show up here and start probing into my life. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind. I am just curious about your motivations.
Also, I was hoping for some info about you. I have some vague memories but nothing more.

I will respond to you question about Minimalist: Why would it be wrong to “own” something or to “possess” something?

I never said it was “wrong” to own things I said that I don’t believe anyone “owns” anything. It is a Buddhist thing I think. I don’t keep a lot of stuff because I do not wish to be attached to things I do not need. Attachment leads to suffering… I don’t think that we can own anything anyway. All we have is our minds. Our thoughts. Our deeds. Everything else we just use for awhile. For example, how can we own land? It has been here for billions of years. We have only lived for a few decades. If anything the land owns us becuase we came from it. Owning things is an artificial human construct. And not all humans think of things in that way.
Think about it. Do you own anything that can be taken away at any moment? Your shirt? Your car? Your life? All we have is our minds, thoughts, and deeds. When those are trampled on it is a great wrongness.

Now, how about it. What is your motivation and you Bio.

#

Steve
Aug 28, 2010 @ 23:19:31

Good questions.

I care because I choose to. I have known you for a long time even though we have not spoken in years and even when we were in the same state we didn’t speak much. I am not probing into you as much as, I believe, you are probing/challenging the world (religious world, corporate world, the MAN, etc) My motivating is nothing beyond Proverbs 27:17.

My bio? I am a cultural exegete.

Minimalist: “I don’t believe anyone owns anything” I think I understand. But now we need to define the word “OWN” What does it mean to own something. Sounds like one of your definitions of ownership is “to be attached to” something. Another definition for ownership is to “come from” something. Also you define it as possessions “shirt, car” or something that can be taken away. So you gave me at least three difinitions for ownership of something. Remember without agreeing on the definitions we can’t get anywhere, it is as if we are speaking a different language.

If you define ownership as “being attached to” I would agree. We should not “own” or attach ourselves to anything worldly, anything that can rust or fade away. But we can and should attach ourselves to each other right? Isn’t that what marriage is al about? Isn’t that what love truly is? So by that definition of own we vow to own each other when we get married, when we have kids, etc. Attachement leads to suffering YES but it also is the only path to truely loving someone. You cannot love someone if you are not attached, engaged, and OWNING each other.

The second definition is to come from something signifies ownership like we come from the earth and to the dust we shall return. Buddhism teaches that we should not be attached to this world, detachment is the goal, not NEEDING the things of this world is a step to Nirvana. Okay, to follow that teaching to its completion if no one owns anything then everyone owns everything correct? Unfortunately that reasoning leads to chaos and the only thing that holds off chaos is artificial human constructs like laws on ownership, on stealing, on rape, on killing. It is NOT the artificial human construct that are the problem, they are necessary to keep chaos away. The problem is silly and stupid humans using those artificial constructs for their own gain and selfishness.

Lastly your defnition of ownership is over things that can be taken away. And you are RIGHT you should not become attached to someTHING that can be taken. But again, that referrs to THINGS and not people. You MUST become attached to people.

Let me give you a few simple definitions of “ownership” of my own and see if you can agree with them.

Ownership is a temporary economic transaction. Used to keep stability in a society.

Ownership is stewardship. To own something means that you are responsible for it. YOU must care for it, nurture it, grow it, see that it is better after you leave than it was before you came. Therefor the more you own the more responsibility you have to be a steward. If you are a good steward the more you own the better it is for society. If you are a bad steward the less you own the better it is for society.

Thoughts?

Maybe its not my place to point out reality as I see it

As some of you may know I am an atheist/Buddhist/Vegetarian/ex-Christian. Some people have told me to stop talking about my views and to find something else to do. I started this blog with the hope that maybe, just maybe, someone would see reality the way I do. I don’t know if I have a right to do this. Maybe its not my place to point out reality as I see it. If it is not, then maybe evangelists should stay home too.
I see the world is broken. I see we are all hurting. I see that most of use are missing the point. So I write and write, trying to get people to open their eyes. But they all tell me that their eyes are already open and that it is I who has shut mine. You know how I feel about that….

I am not belittling people of faith. I do not think you below me or less intelligent than me. I am just trying to get you to see the rest of the world. I was a Christian for most of my life. I know how small the Christian world is, I was in it. When I woke up to the rest of the world it scared me. I tried desperately to go back, but I couldn’t.
You don’t have to believe me, but I am telling the truth.