How can True Followers of Jesus Waste Grains and Water to Grow Animals for Food?

When it is obvious that millions of human beings are starving to death and dying from lack of fresh water, how can true followers of Jesus waste grains and water to grow animals for food? What is more important, our personal appetites or the lives of other men women and children?

links in comment bellow…


21 responses to “How can True Followers of Jesus Waste Grains and Water to Grow Animals for Food?

  1. When its obvious that millions of human beings are suffering from no hope, feelings of not belonging, and lack of love, how can atheists ridicule a group of people committed to spreading love? What is more important, our personal pride or other men and children?

  2. Hmm. Is that you not answering the question? You said you wanted a harder one to grapple with.
    And just because a group says it is “committed to spreading love” that in no way means that they are. How is this love spread? Historically with the sword. Today from Barcaloungers in front of 52 inch plasma TVs. But I digress.
    Can you answer the question?

  3. I don’t think I can. Humans have been around for how long? Still people starving. It’s almost like people die instead of living forever.

    What if, instead of everyone eating grain, we just let all of the people that are starving come work on our farms for food? Do you have any problem with slavery?

  4. What if we feed the world’s hungry by letting them work on farms? It seems like the issue isn’t that there are enough resources for the world’s population. There just aren’t enough of the affluent’s resources for everyone.

    It seems like your solution is just a matter of controlling what everyone on Earth does… why not slavery for food?

  5. … Did you read the links?
    I am not suggesting control. I am suggesting that people could change because it is the right thing to do. Can you act out of love to abstain from an unnecessary practice to get the necessary to people who need it?
    In no way am I saying we all MUST stop eating meat because I say so. I am saying that as Christians, people should want to because Jesus would. Or am I wrong there? Would Jesus let them all starve while he ate beef steak?

  6. No, Jesus would turn 1 steak into enough to feed thousands… with 12 baskets leftover.

    I do the best I can, Zeb. When the Lord blesses me with more, I’ll be able to help more. I can’t really control what my neighbor does, but I can help him find the same reason I help, though.

  7. hmm… Again I am up against some inadvisable wall. Why not just say it, Bradley? You don’t want to give up meat. You like it to much. Even if you could help save lives and make the world a better place, you won’t. Your personal appetites are more important.

    I could talk about this subject for many different angles but I will always hit the same wall. People want what people want and to hell with the rest.

    You are right. You can’t control you neighbor, but you should be able to control yourself.

    Have a good night.

  8. I don’t think not eating meat is the answer. It’s too bad that my lifestyle does not live up to your standard, but you haven’t convinced me that starvation would be cured by not eating meat. Starvation wouldn’t be cured by giving all of our money, either.

    Sad to say, but the only way I think we could cure starvation is by also controlling population growth. But, that would require a ruling body capable of controlling that growth, and I can’t think of any person I want with that kind of power. Do you? Maybe you do… you’ve shown a rather consistent desire to rule over others. The weird thing is I really don’t think you see it.

    …day 12 or 13 without meat…

  9. “you’ve shown a rather consistent desire to rule over others. ”

    Really? I don’t see were. I just what people to use their brains. I can’t make anybody do anything and I don’t what to. Have you read the links yet?

    I don’t what an overlord of any kind. I just what people to care.

    I am sorry I yelled at you. I was frustrated. I think I am going to give up this Exercise In Futility.

  10. You shouldn’t give up blogging because you get frustrated. It would do you much better if you figured out why you were so frustrated in the first place. When you dig through all the layers and sift through all the junk, I have a hunch that you’ll find that what you think you’re angry at isn’t what you’re angry at.

    You can’t possibly be mad at all Christians, because you don’t know all Christians.
    You can’t be mad at a church, because a church is just a building.

    But yet you write like you are mad at these things, and then you claim that you’ve “woken up”, as if your way of life is better than anyone elses and beyond reproach. It’s not anger, you say, it’s logic. That’s just the way the world is, says you, and if you don’t agree, then I’m sorry for you.

    Sounds like those people we see holding billboards and signs downtown telling us we’re all going to hell. You sound more like a fundamentalist Christian than I ever thought you would, Zeb.

    This is why your Zen isn’t very good. You’ve focused all of your energy on what other people are doing wrong and calling them out on it. You’ve concentrated on everything negative.

    Instead, try writing positively about things you care about. You’ve mentioned Bhuddism, try writing about that.

    Or maybe small steps that anyone can take to eat less meat.

    I know you have more than a passing interest in computers, try writing something on that.

    Beyond that, if you do have questions, feel free to ask them. But don’t ask them like you’ve got everything figured out and everyone else is stupid. And when you get an answer, think about it for a while before you return fire.


  11. Wingnut ~ Well said.
    You are right, I do focus on the negative. I will have to think on that.

    I can tell you that I am not angry at all Christians or any church buildings. I have many Christian family members and some friends. I love them just the same as I always have. When I use the phrase “woke up” I do so because that is what it felt like. I could use the saying, “my eyes were opened” but that wouldn’t be any better I guess. We all wake up to things. Some things are bigger than others.
    Their is one thing I know that I am angry about. The other week my grand father sent a pastor to my house. He thought “that I might want to find a good church”. I understand that he was trying to be a good Christian and a good grand father but is it really his business if I go? And why not just talk to me himself? I had a nice long chat with the pastor. He had no answers but asked if we could meet again… I have not seen him sense.
    So, what makes me mad there is the idea that as a Christian my grand father things I am not doing thing right. That I need to live his way.
    But of course I am doing the same thing here…
    At least I am not sending vegetarian zen atheists to peoples houses, right?

  12. I take most of the blame. I tend to be an abrasive person, and electronic media is horrible for understanding tone. That’s why I use so many lame smiley’s. 😀 I joke a lot, but that’s no excuse. My patience is also wearing thin from reading so much atheist propaganda, fact manipulation, and all out lies. It’s just a big scheme to try and level the playing field.

    The truth is, christianity spreads hope. Even if atheists don’t believe that hope, that’s what it is. So, because atheists won’t let themselves have that hope, they perhaps see themselves at a disadvantage. “Why should all those delusional people have that kind of hope when I don’t? We must destroy the delusion so we’re all equal.” That’s the way I see it anyway.

    I love people. I want them to have hope. I want them to know they have the ability to overcome sin, through the power of Christ. If we can’t stop starvation, I can at least do all I can to give them a faith in something that transcends hunger. I don’t care what you’re peddling. If we’re on the same team, we’re on the same team.

    I’ll tell you, Zeb. I get the feeling you have a lot of people praying for your well-being. Even if you don’t think it does anything, you have to know that WE all do. So, for us to spend our time thinking of you in this manner… you’ve gotta feel the love. I don’t even know you, but I’ve gotten to know enough about you to know that I want to know more about you. And, because of that I think you’re a person that deserves to be listened to.

    I appreciate the influence you’ve had on my fast, and the help you’ve been. Even if I go to others for the spiritual support, you’ve been great for the material aid I need.

  13. Bradley~ When you say that atheists think, “Why should all those delusional people have that kind of hope when I don’t? We must destroy the delusion so we’re all equal.” you miss the mark. Atheists are no more jealous of the Christian “hope” than they are of the child’s hope in presents from Santa.
    To say that atheists fight the notion of a god because they are jealous or angry at god is like saying Christians fight the notion of no god because they can’t cope with reality.
    I am not trying to argue the point, I just think that if you really what to know what makes atheists tick, you would like to know the truth.

    I am glad to help with you “fast” and with anything else within my ability.

    Wingnut ~ My wife seems to think that when you said, “When you dig through all the layers and sift through all the junk, I have a hunch that you’ll find that what you think you’re angry at isn’t what you’re angry at.” that you may have been saying that am I really mad at god. I don’t know if this is true. I would think that if you thought that, you would just say it. 🙂

    Over the last day I have thought about what it is that makes me angry with Christianity. I am usually a rather content person. I love to laugh and have a good time. But when religion comes up I get… miffed. I think it may have something to do the the feeling of betrayal. I understand that my friends and family were working from a place of love and that they really believed what they told me. But I see now that it was all make-believe. I know you don’t see it that way, but I do. How would you feel if you found out that your whole life you were lied to by well meaning people and that everything you thought you knew was wrong?
    I guess I don’t really care what you believe as long as you are happy and content to let others believe what they believe. I am sure I will get over the negative feelings I have some day. But it has only been a few years and I need to work on 30 years of false understanding and belief.

  14. One other thought…
    I think what frustrates me most is when others can not see that I am right.
    I know… Thar sounds really bad, but it is true. I have a deep seeded need to be right. I don’t know for sure where I got this. Maybe it is in my blood or maybe I got it from my Christian upbringing. I don’t know. What I do know is that I have not rooted it out yet, even though I try. I know it is like banging my head against the wall when I try to get Christians to see the world my way. And still I do it. I guess that says more about me then the people I talk to.

  15. I didn’t really mean “jealous” of Christians. I said it puts them at a disadvantage. There are tangible benefits to being a Christian, even if only for the unity within society.

    A church is a big “family”. That’s a pretty big support team. Who wouldn’t benefit from that?

    Christianity has a strong identity. Despite the millions of individual theologies, they all spring from the same Rock. That’s a great head start in self-discovery.

    Belief in the concept of eternal life reduces the impact of life’s hardships. It allows people to give more sacrificially to help others. Is there any other way to promote the continued Life of humanity than sacrificial giving? It’s a lifestyle that perpetuates itself in others… that’s eternal.

    The redeemed posses an ability to feel love that is unparalleled by any other. Even if someone has no other person in his/her life, an individual still possesses the love from his creator that purchased the individual’s freedom from death, by the death of the Creator’s own beloved Son. And likewise, the Son willingly died out of the same love. That’s Love that only the Redeemed can experience.

    Then there’s the hope of an afterlife… that needn’t even be discussed.

    These are just a few of the obvious things. I don’t think it’s necessarily out of jealousy that atheists launch their campaign against believers. I think it’s out of self-promotion that they do it. They are either trying to obtain the same benefits through living in opposition to them, or directly attacking them to remove the advantage that they can never possess without Christ.

  16. If you were mad at God, then you would have to accept that God exists. And you don’t, so either you aren’t mad at God, but mad at people who claim to follow God and have hurt you, -OR- you really are mad at God, and trying to convince yourself that it’s NOT God you’re mad at.

    We could go around in circles all day with that one, so let’s not. I don’t think you’re mad at God.

    Here’s an important thought: When it comes to the reality of God, no-one can prove or disprove it.

    I believe God exists just as strongly as you say God doesn’t exist.

    You believe you’re right, I believe I’m right.

    We start to run into problems when one person, either the Christian or the atheist/agnostic/humanist/whatever begins the argument with “I’m right, you’re wrong.” statement.

    The person on the other side of the argument has no choice but to dig in deeper, defend his position a bit stronger, make his points a bit louder.

    Nothing happens except LOUD NOISES! and two reasonably intelligent people who may have everything in common except the one issue will part ways bitterly.

    This is what you’re doing, and this is why people stop being your friend on facebook.

    Rather than actually engage the questions and the issues, you use them like weapons, just more rounds in your rifle as you blast away at everyone who disagrees with you.

    That’s what Bradley meant when he said you wanted to rule over others. You’re trying to force everyone to agree with you. It’s never, ever going to happen.

    No matter how my views on God and Christ and the Church may change throughout my life, I will always believe that God is real.


  17. So… I admit that I was in error and that I have a problem with needing to be right and this is what I get?

    Bradley ~ I am not going to argue with you. Believe what you wish! Does your belief make you right? And no, this is not me being frustrated. This is be being pissed off.

    Wingnut ~ What do you want from me? Maybe I should stop being so honest. Shall I roll over so you can kick me on the other side too?

  18. Please don’t feel like I’m kicking you, Zeb. And don’t ever stop being honest.

    I was being rather harsh, now that I re-read what I wrote.

    My point merely is that when people talk about these sorts of things, too often it turns into a boxing match, with both sluggers merely trying to hit the other person and knock them out.

    What I’m saying is that it doesn’t have to be this way. Instead of listing off all of our little talking points and talking past each other, let’s simply discuss the issues.

    I used to try to be right all the time too. All it got me was pissed off all the time.

    I decided that instead of trying to force people to agree with me, all I could do was try to explain truth as I see it. It’s a lot more fun having conversations when you’re not trying to force somebody to accept your point of view.

    Sorry I was harsh. I hope your migraine gets better. Wifey had one yesterday too, and she’s still not all the way back. I’ve never had one, but if they’re anything like what people describe them as, I’m not interested.


  19. ”In no way am I saying we all MUST stop eating meat because I say so. I am saying that as Christians, people should want to because Jesus would. Or am I wrong there? Would Jesus let them all starve while he ate beef steak?”

    No, Jesus would share his steak because that’s the right thing to do. But in no way is that an argument to get christians to stop eating meat. We can share food, including meat, with the poor, we can send money, there is a lot we can do, as christians, to help the poor, to help the less fortunate. Oh… Non-Christians can do the same thing…

    Eating less meat and more cereal will not eliminate poverty and hunger in the world. The problem doesn’t come from ”meat”… If we were to stop eating meat and eat only cereal and veggies, I am certain that poverty would still exist and that poor african countries would still go through the same struggles.

    Rich would still get richer and poor, poorer…

    I don’t believe the problem is there…

    ( How about we eat only veggies and cereals and leave the animals with no food…just kidding… )

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